Who Is Saved? (2)

Question 6. So are you saying that only those who belong to the "church of Christ" are truly saved?

Answer This is a very important and also a very misunderstood question.  I hope and pray that the way I answer will be according to what the Bible teaches and will be clear to you and those who read this answer  In order to accurately answer, I will have to distinguish between what I think you mean by your question and what the Bible teaches.  If I do not understand what you mean, hopefully some of what I say will make sense.

First, it depends on what you mean by the "Church of Christ"?   Unfortunately, since we live in a society where is widely accepted that there are many different "churches" that are combined together in some to make up Jesus' Church, then this can give a certain meaning to this question that will affect the answer.

We should recognize that when the New Testament was written there were no denominations (different organized groups of congregations that were described by different names and that followed different teachings).  In that time, there were only those who obeyed the gospel in the way it was presented by the apostles and spent their lives learn, living and worshipping as the apostles directed them.  These disciples met together in whatever cities and towns they were living in and they were led by men who met specified qualifications where they could serve as elders or bishops.  However, their authority did not extend beyond the local group.  They were called collective by names such as churches of Christ and Churches of God, but they were the same people who followed the same teaching of the apostles.  They were Jesus' church (assembly of called out ones) who were saved by Him in the same way and submitted only to Him as Head.  Jesus built this assembly of people based on His death, resurrection, ascension and sending the Holy Spirit to the apostles to guide them in communicating the one truth to the people so they could be a part of His church.  See Acts 2, especially verses 36-47, 1 Pet. 5:1-4, Rom. 16:16, 1 Or. 1:1-2, Matt. 16:13-19,  Eph. 1:18-23. In order to prevent different groups of congregations from even beginning to form, Paul wrote warning various local churches not to depart from the one teaching that had been given to them.  1 Cor. 1:10-13, Gal. 1:6-9, Acts 20:28-32.  If Paul did not want there to be any division among a local group of disciples, how could we ever conclude that Paul or the Lord would approve of many groups of congregations that were divided from one another and from His word?

If you mean by "Church of Christ" a denomination or Party of congregations created by men with traditions and teaching not based on the New Testament writings, then NO, no one in that group can be saved!  In fact, if we join ourselves to any denomination or man-made church, we cannot be saved!  How can we?  By doing so, we are either knowingly or unknowingly rejecting what the New Testament says.  We are nether told to approve or join any of these "churches" that men have created.   Therefore again, I do not believe that any of us can be saved if we join ourselves to man-made churches that uphold human teachings above the Word of God, whether they call themselves Catholic, Church of Christ, Baptist or anything else.

However, if you mean by "church of Christ" those who submit to the gospel as given by the apostles and meet together in independent local groups seeking to following only what is given in the New Testament writings, the YES, only those will be saved!   Read carefully Eph. 5:22-33, especially verses 22-24.  Here, we are told that Jesus is nor only the Head of the body but also the savior of His body.  What is His body?  Read again Eph. 1:20-23.  His body is His church?  What or who is His church?  Those like in Acts 2 who submit to the gospel and devote their lives to learning and living according the apostles' teaching are His people His church, the Church of Christ and they will be saved by Him.  Gal. 3:26-29, 1 Cor. 12:13.

I hope and pray that you and all who read this might consider carefully these things and abandon all party affiliations, labels and teachings and turn only to Jesus and His word, obeying the gospel by believing in Him, repenting of sins, confessing His name before witnesses and being baptized (immersed) in water for the forgiveness of sins.   Having done this and been united with Jesus as Head, devote your life to living and worshipping as He directs meeting with a group in your area that is independent of a regional, national or world man-made bodies and is subject only to Christ and His will.   If there is not such a group meeting in your area, then let me know and perhaps there can be one started according to what the New Testament says. Contact Gary

Question 7. What happened to people before Jesus died on the cross for our sins? Could they go to Heaven?

Answer Here are some passages that come to mind which answer your question:

Heb 11:6 6   But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (KJV)

See here, that God "is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."   Those before the cross who diligently sought God could go to heaven.

Luke 16:19-31 19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (KJV)

The account of the Rich man and Lazarus.  Note that Abraham was in heaven.   He diligently sought the Lord, and was rewarded.  Lazarus was before the cross, and went to heaven.  The rich man, before the cross, asked Abraham if he could send Lazardus back to the earth to preach to his brothers -- why? -- so that they would not come to that terrible place.  Then where would they go?  To the only other choice, heaven!

Acts 17:30 30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (KJV)

Paul, preaching to the Greeks on Mars Hill in Athens, mentioned the situation of gentiles before the cross.  God overlooked their ignorance.  (This does not contradict Romans one, where Paul discussed that those gentiles should have known better.)   So we see, the gentiles before the cross, those who dilligently sought after God, were rewarded, i.e. went to heaven.

Heb 11:8-16 8   By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9   By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10  For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14  For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15  And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. (KJV)

We see here that Abraham, and others like him before the cross, who diligently sought after God, were looking for a better city, an eternal city.  They were rewarded by God; they went to heaven.

So I think it is clear from these and other passages that those before the cross, who diligently sought after God, were rewarded, and went to heaven when they died.

Remember Enoch?

Gen 5:21-24 21  And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22  And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23  And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24  And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (KJV)

Enoch diligently sought after God -- so much so that God took Enoch home with him -- to heaven!   Contact David

Question 8. My mother recently became a Jehovah's Witness. She says that only 144,000 are going to be in heaven -- the "anointed ones". Who exactly are the 144,000 that they are so fixed upon?

Answer This is a confusing false doctrine. The 144,000 is referred to in only two passages, Rev. 7:4 and 14:1-3. Consider the writings of two scholars on the subject.

First let us look at some writings of my father-in-law, a preacher in Africa for half a century, who spend a lot of time studying Jehovah's Witness doctrine:

Rev. 7:4 - 8. "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of Israel (5) Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. (6) Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. (7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. (8) Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand."

The 144,000 refers to spiritual Israel, the church or kingdom of Christ. Under the New Testament, fleshly Israel was cast out. They, represented by the son of the bondwoman, cannot be heirs with the Christians, represented by the son of the free woman. Gal. 4:21-30. By faith in Christ Christians are heirs of Abraham according to the promise. Gal. 3:26-29. Christians make up the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel over whom the twelve apostles sit as judges. Matt. 19:28. Christians are the people to whom the kingdom of God was given when it was taken away from fleshly Israel, as predicted by Jesus. Matt. 21:43. Christians are the true Israel, in the Spirit, according to the promise made to Abraham. Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6-8. Christians, who rejoice in Christ, are the real circumcision. Phil. 3:2,3. They are the Israel of God. Gal. 6:15,16. They were the twelve tribes who were sealed by the angel. The number, 144,000, is symbolic, signifying the full or complete number of the Christians. That the number is symbolic is in harmony with the other details of the context which are symbolic. That the names of the tribes are symbolic is evident in the fact that the list deviates from the normal listing of the names of the tribes that inherited the promised land. Judah is listed first as if he, and not Reuben, were the first firstborn. Ephraim is not named, though Manasseh is, as also Joseph, although it was Ephraim and Manasseh who inherited land under the Old Covenant. Levi is named although this tribe was devoted to the Lord and did not inherit land as the other tribes did. Dan, one of the twelve which inherited land, is not named. All of this shows the listing was not intended to represent the fleshly tribes, but was symbolic.

SOME SYMBOLS USED IN REVELATION CHAPTER FOURTEEN:

THE LAMB: without controversy this can refer only to Christ.

MOUNT ZION: the church. Heb. 12:22-24.

THE 144,000: the Christians, who are spiritual Israel (Rom. 2:28,29; 9:6-8; Phil. 3:3), the Israel of God (Gal. 6:15,16), over whom the apostles rule as judges delivering the laws of Christ (Matt. 16:19; 18:18; 19:28).

FATHER'S NAME IN THEIR FOREHEADS: God's seal or mark (7:3,4). In this chapter, v.1, the seal or mark is given as God's name. Amos prophesied that Gentiles who became Christians would "bear" God's name. Amos 9:11,12; Acts 15:13-18. The impress or seal of God's possession would be seen in the Christians in their teaching of His word and in their obedience to it. It would not be a secret, but a public mark of ownership, being visible to all in their foreheads. Their doctrine, worship, and manner of life would distinguish them from those who worship the beast.

THE NEW SONG: it was a song of deliverance. In this song it was deliverance from the power of Satan that was celebrated. On previous occasions God's people had celebrated in song their deliverance from their enemies, as for example when Israel was delivered from the power of Egypt. Exod. 15:1-21. But now God's new people, bearing a new name, serving under a new covenant, having a new priesthood, with better promises and a better hope, sing a new song of a new and better deliverance than fleshly Israel had ever known. See Heb. 8:8-13; 9:11-15; 10:11-22; 13:10-15; 2:14,15.

NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN: obviously symbolic of spiritual faithfulness to God. A literal application would exclude women from being Christians. Adultery, fornication, harlotry, are all used symbolically in the Bible to picture unfaithfulness to God. Exod. 34:14-17; Judges 2:11,17; Ezek. 16:1-63; 23:1-49; Hos. 1:1-3; 3:1-5; Isa. 1:20; Jer. 2:20; and many more examples.

THEY ARE VIRGINS: purity of life as Christians is symbolized. Paul used this symbolism to describe the Christian's proper relationship to Christ. 2 Cor. 11:2. Jesus promised that the pure in heart would see God. Matt.5:8.

Rev. 14:1. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

The prophets had foretold that God would call to himself a new people. e.g. Hosea 2:23. Paul's letter to the Romans is devoted to explaining who these people are, and how they have become the people of God in place of fleshly Israel. In Rev. 7 they are pictured as the 12 tribes of the Israel of God, and they are sealed (marked) as God's chosen, to be preserved through the tribulation to come. Their number is given as 144,000, being made up of 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes. 12 is the product of 3 and 4: "three" being the number of divinity, and 4 symbolizing humanity, thus man in relationship to God. "1,000" is symbolic of totality, all of anything. e.g. The Lord keeps covenant to a thousand generations. Deut. 7:9. No one has difficulty understanding this means "to ALL generations". The cattle on a thousand hills are the Lord's. Psa. 50:10. Again no difficulty. ALL the cattle on ALL the hills are the Lord's. We say to our children, "I've told you a thousand times (or a million!?!) not to do that." Even our children understand what we mean! Then why should there be any difficulty in recognizing the symbolic usage of "thousand" in an admittedly highly figurative book? The 144,000 symbolizes ALL of spiritual Israel, the total number of God's chosen people. Mount Zion of the New Testament is the church of the New Covenant. Gal. 4:25-31; Heb. 12:22-24. Isaiah pictured the setting up of the church as the establishing of a mountain above the hills. Isa. 2:2. The church is the security and the glory of spiritual Israel. The Father's name written in their foreheads is evidently the seal placed upon them by the angel. Rev. 7:3. This would be symbolic of a way of thought and life that openly manifested their intimate relationship with God. All who saw their manner of life would know them to be Christians.

REv. 14:2. "and I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:..."

The "many waters" and "great thunder" picture a mighty and terrifying sound, loud enough to catch the attention of all. Saul found David's voice and harp soothing. Here John heard not only the fear inspiring voice, but also the soothing and comforting voices of the harpers with their harps. The Revelation is a message of fearful judgment to the wicked, but also of soothing comfort to the suffering saints who are to find deliverance. Harps in heaven, of course, furnish no authority for instruments of music in the church. Just as incense in heaven is symbolic of the worship and prayers of the saints, so harps are symbolic of their praise. God has told us to "SING" in the church. He has made no mention of either incense or harps to be used in the worship of the church on earth.

REv. 14:3. "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Fleshly Israel, delivered from Egypt after crossing the Red Sea, sang a new song of deliverance. Exod. 15:1-21. Now spiritual Israel, delivered from the bondage of sin, sing a new song. Its theme would surely be praise for deliverance.

Here is another in-depth study. It is deep, so take it slowly:

WHO ARE THE 144,000? By David J. Riggs

The number "144,000" is mentioned in two passages in the Scriptures, both in the book of Revelation (Rev. 7:4; 14:1-3). In Rev. 7:4, the 144,000 were the faithful who were sealed on earth as shown in verses 2 and 3. The "seal" signifies ownership and consequent protection (Ezek. 9:6; 2 Tim. 2:19; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30).

In chapter six of Revelation we see the saints under the altar (9-11) and a terrible judgment coming upon the earth which was closed with the question, "Who shall be able to stand?" (12-17). In view of this one might ask, "Will the saints on earth be able to stand and what will happen to the souls under the altar?" John's vision (an interlude of two parts between the six and seventh seals) answers these questions. The saints on earth are sealed and those martyred are before the throne of God. Thus, the first part of the interlude is to permit the sealing of the saints in order that they will be able to endure the afflictions set forth in chapter six. The judgments seem to be altered so that they will not hurt God's children.

In chapter seven, the four angels standing at the four corners (used to designate the four directions) were holding the four winds of the earth (the four winds of judgment--conquest, war, famine, and death--as in 6:1-8 and as seen from the word "hurt" in 7:2-3). (Compare Jer. 49:36-38; 51:1-2). They were given to hurt the earth and the sea, but another angel ascending from the sunrising (from the direction of the morning light; suggests a message of cheer and encouragement), having the seal of the living God, said, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." (7:3). Hence, God's people will not be affected by the forthcoming judgments as will the people of the world. (See Rev. 9:4).

After the vision of the 144,000, John sees a great multitude which no man could number out of every nation and from every tribe, people and tongue. (7:9-17). Jehovah's Witnesses try to teach that these are the saved who inherit the earth and the 144,000 are those who receive heaven. However, the 144,000 are those on earth who are sealed and the great multitude are those souls with God who had come out of the great tribulation (6:9; 7:13-14). Furthermore, the expression, "before the throne" is used both of the great multitude (7:9) and later in the heavenly setting of the 144,000 (14:1-5). The white robes of the great multitude are symbolical of holiness, and justification (3:4-5; 6:11; 7:14), and the palms suggest a joyful, festive occasion (Lev. 23:40; John 12:13).

They cried with a loud voice saying "Salvation to our God, who sitteth on the throne and unto the Lamb" (an expression of praise and gratitude to both God and Christ for the salvation provided). They are followed by angels who fell before the throne on their faces and worshiped God with a sevenfold praise similar to that given to the Lamb in Rev. 5:12. The angels stood around the throne, as well as the elders, and the four living creatures (7:11), which again shows that this occurred in heaven and is not something that is to occur on earth.

One of the elders speaks asking John, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" John did not know, but he was certain that the elder knew. The elder answered, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..." (7:14). The "great tribulation" here is the one that took place under the world wide persecution (not fully identified until the 13th chapter) in John's day. It was "world wide" because this great multitude with the white robes were of "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (7:9). They are the same ones with "white robes" who cry for the avenging of their blood (6:9-11). They had been put to death for their faith, had gained the victory, and are now before the throne. They had washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. By Christ's blood the saint is washed from his sins (Rev. 1:5), redeemed (Rev. 5:9-10; 1 Pet. 1:18-19), given remission of sins (Matt. 26:28), has constant cleansing as he continually complies with the conditions (1 John 1:7-9), and is able to overcome (Rev. 12:11).

In chapter 14 of Revelation, the victorious Lamb stood on mount Zion and with Him were 144,000 who had the Father's name written in their foreheads (14:1). These are those who were sealed earlier and are now also before the throne (14:5). The term "before the throne" is figurative of the place of comfort or paradise. Thus, the 144,000 represent the complete number of the martyred saints including the rest of those who were to come out of the great tribulation (6:9-11). They were the holy city that would be tread underfoot (11:2); the beast had made war with them and overcome them (14:3). They had obtained the victory over the beast (15:2) and their blood would soon be avenged (16:5-6; 17;6; 18:24; 19:2). They were the martyrs living and reigning with Christ (20:4).

Again, the number "144,000" must not be taken literal. It simply represents the complete number of the martyred saints. If one makes the number literal, he must also make their description literal. This would mean that only virgin men will go to heaven (14:4). On the contrary, these were the "firstfruits" to God and the Lamb (14:4) indicating others would follow. The Bible speaks of heaven for every faithful child of God (2 Cor. 5:1-2; Phil. 3:20-21; 1 Pet. 1:4-5). Those who limit heaven to only 144,000 have completely misunderstood the Bible, not to mention John's teaching in Revelation. As we explained, the sealing of the 144,000 in chapter 7 was done to those living on earth and does not refer to those in heaven at all. We pray that all those who are presently striving to serve God, will someday be in heaven with all the redeemed of the ages. Contact David

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